LTMS was present at the most recent set of Budget Committee meetings regarding the desire of the Lebanon Fire and EMS Department to replace an ailing and out of service Engine 1 with a 2017 model year Fire Truck.
The comments made during the meeting, and after, were concerning to us, and we asked Chief Daniel Meehan for an interview.
Chief Meehan, asked us to provide the interview in writing for him to complete, and we think that is a lovely idea!!! It's always better to provide an interview in someone's own written word.
Many thanks to Chief Daniel Meehan of the Lebanon Fire and EMS Department for providing the answers to our questions in writing........
The Chief provided his answers to LMTS on Wednesday, April 6, 2016.
Sent from Lebanon Maine Truth Seekers March 17, 2016
Good Morning Chief Meehan, and Happy St. Patrick’s Day,
I attended last evening’s (March 16, 2016) Lebanon Budget Committee Meeting at the Town Office. I was alerted to this meeting less than an hour prior to its beginning, and there was no Town Website notification. As a resident of Lebanon, but not part of the current Budget Committee, I am not allowed to participate or ask a question during that meeting, however, during the meeting, and after the meeting, statements were made by members of the Budget Committee that concerned me greatly. I hope that you will consider sharing a few answers with me today so that I can properly inform the residents of the Town of Lebanon to truthful answers, Right from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.
LMTS: During Wednesday evening’s impromptu question and answer meeting, many questions were asked of you regarding the Lebanon Fire and EMS Department’s need for a new fire truck, exact specifications, equipment capabilities and specifications, and yet you seemed unprepared to deliver a presentation to the Budget Committee.
Could I begin by asking you when you were alerted to this meeting, and why you were not prepared?
Chief Meehan: “I found out about 15 minutes before the meeting. I was still gathering information about the truck and had no time to get it together before the meeting.”
LMTS: One of the questions presented to you during the meeting was with regards to your late submission of a referendum question to the Budget Committee for inclusion on a May 10th, 2016 Town Ballot. Why didn’t you present your request when you presented your regular department budget to the Committee?
Chief Meehan: “Eng 1 was inspected in January and failed half way though, Hartford’s said there was no need to proceed with what they already found, so we started looking at a Fire Truck, it takes time to get meetings set up, bids in and then prices, usually it is a six month to a year process, we did it in about three months.”
LMTS: I was personally present at the Monday, March 14, 2016 Lebanon Board of Selectmen’s meeting, when you contacted Selectman Royce Heath regarding specifications and pricing of a 2017 fire engine pumper tanker truck that you are hoping to obtain for the Lebanon Fire and EMS department. How long prior to that phone call did you receive those final proposal prices?
Chief Meehan: “Pricing and loan payment came in just a few hours before the selectmen’s meeting and as a matter of fact the specifications on the truck came in via email while I was in the selectmen’s meeting.”
LMTS: Prior to receiving pricing, how long had you, or your department members, been speaking to fire truck companies with regards to pricing and specifications of a new fire engine, pumper tanker truck?
Chief Meehan: “We had asked 3 companies to put in a bid with the specifications we wanted just months prior. It takes time for them to put a bid together, then for us to meet to go over it. Then to pick one and start talking about what if anything we want to cut from the truck or add. This process usually talks 5 months or more. We got it done in 3 months.”
LMTS: On the morning of Wednesday, March 16, 2016, I was personally present at the Blaisdell Corner, Station 2, as the Maine State Police conducted a complementary truck inspection of Lebanon Engine 1. What was it that prompted you to have the Maine State Police conduct this truck inspection?
Chief Meehan: “We had it inspected by a very knowledgeable mechanic but to make sure bases were covered and to show the citizens that Engine 1 really has out lived its service to the town.”
LMTS: During the Budget Committee meeting of Wednesday, March 16th, you stated that Hartford Truck of Lebanon had also conducted a partial inspection of Engine 1, but that they did not complete the inspection as the list of problems with that vehicle was too extensive to repair without the repair costs going over the value of the vehicle. Could you tell us what the problems were that Hartford Truck identified with Engine 1?
Chief Meehan: “Tank Supports rotted, tank might of shifted, right side tie rod needs replacing, exhaust needs replacing, excessive rust. Also once again the fire pump needs repair, after reviewing past records this has been an ongoing problem, since 2000 costing thousands."
LMTS: Former Fire Department Chief Blaine “Skip” Wood, questioned you on the number of gallons of water that Engine 1 could hold, your answer was 750 gallons of water. Mr. Wood corrected you and stated that Engine 1 could hold 900 gallons of water. The Budget Committee seemed to be concerned with this discrepancy. In the greater scheme of what you are trying to achieve, does the tank capability of Engine 1, matter, since it is out of service, and probably permanently so?
Chief Meehan: "The discrepancy was with Engine 2 our first engine out the door, this engine carries only 795 gallons of water, this apparatus would be good if there was plenty of hydrants in town, but in a town like Lebanon no Engine should be ordered with less than 1000 gallons."
LMTS: Budget Committee Member, Corinna Cole had asked the 7 members of the Board who voted not to recommend the Lebanon Fire and EMS budget to the voters of Lebanon, 7 to 0 with 2 abstentions, their reasons in not recommending. Three members stated that they felt the budget was “too high” but would give no specifics as to what it was they were objecting to. I had been present during the meeting in February when you presented your budget to the Committee, and in reviewing my notes, the only suggestions to changes in your budget seemed to concern the purchase of t-shirts for your department, (the only uniform provided to members other than a single set of fire turnout gear) and many questions regarding the Depot Road Fire Station (Station 1) and its upkeep and repair, which were continually addressed by Selectman Thompson as being questions for the Lebanon Fire Department Inc., a separate entity not within your control. In your recollection, were there any suggestions by the Lebanon Budget Committee with regards to items in your budget that could save the Town of Lebanon large amounts of money?
Chief Meehan: “There were no suggestions by the committee, I answered their questions and when done had asked if they had any other questions. I remember hearing "good job".
I am asking for the budget to stay the same as this year.
T-shirts and hooded sweatshirts were bought and given to members to show pride in their department and to be more uniformed for the EMS crew answering calls. I have personally bought pink shirts and sweatshirts for members out of my own pocket, to show support.
I did give back over $4,200 to the town from the EMA department."
LMTS: During the Budget Committee Meeting of March 16th, the upkeep and maintenance of Station 1 was once again discussed, with a member stating that over the years, the Town of Lebanon and the Lebanon Fire Department had “milked that free station dry”, insinuating that the Town and it’s fire department had put little to no money into the upkeep or maintenance of Depot Road, Station 1. Could you tell us the issues that plague Station 1 when you took over as Chief, and which issues are present at this time? How have you personally addressed each current maintenance item? In your time as Chief, you have spent any of your department’s budget on making repairs or conducting maintenance of Station 1?
Chief Meehan: “I do not understand how the town or department “milked the station dry” The building is owned by the cooperation. But all maintenance has come out of my budget. I pay for heat, electricity, cable, propane, internet, phone, salt for water and alarm service. I have had the furnace repaired, repaired all three bay doors, bought lights, bought a new electric heater for office, had water system maintained. Currently I am looking at an antiquated internet system, a leaking hot water tank and the back meeting room floor has some sort of sink hole.”
LMTS: During a recent Selectmen’s meeting, there was discussion on the department’s purchase of a pickup truck with a utility body, a skid unit with the possibility of a plow on the front. At Wednesday evening’s Budget Committee meeting, members seemed to have a difficult time understanding why the Fire and EMS Department would consider a need for this type of vehicle, and they seemed angry that you would ask for two new vehicles in the same year. Could you explain what a “skid unit” is, why this would be important, what the benefit would be to the taxpayers of Lebanon if this vehicle should be obtained, and why the fire department feels the need to obtain a pickup truck and a fire engine within the same year, and how that vehicle would be paid for?
Chief Meehan: “We need a new forestry vehicle, the current one is from 1978 and has served the town well, but needs to be retired. In this topic a skid unit is used for brush fires, it is the pump and water tank on a removable skid. All this is for a forestry unit; the money would come out of the CIP. I have explained to the selectmen about some ideas, to buy a pickup with a utility body and put a skid unit in it, to just buy a forestry truck and if a plow would benefit because sometimes the ambulance cannot make it into a drive way when there is too much snow.”
LMTS: Budget Committee Member Nancy Neubert discussed the fact that voters of Lebanon had turned down the replacement of Engine 1 on several occasions between 2009, and 2014, and there was a long recitation by Committee Member Chris Gilpatrick, Sr. regarding department members continually blaming the former Fire Department Administration for the poor condition of the department’s apparatus when you took your office back in January of 2015. Why do you believe it is important for 2016 Lebanon voters to approve a fire truck purchase for your department?
Chief Meehan: “ The safety of the citizens of the town, the safety of the firefighters and to protect property. The town is growing, more developments are going in, more people are moving in. Having the right tools to do the job safely and efficiently."
LMTS: Chief, if given the money to purchase a 2017 fire truck for the Town of Lebanon, there were concerns voiced by members of the Budget Committee that you are planning to purchase other new vehicles next year. It has been my personal experience in business and my limited knowledge of other Budget Committees and Town Governments that it is typical to have a 5 and 10 year plan with regards to Capital Improvements. Do you have a plan in place for continuing replacement of older Emergency Services equipment over the next 5 or 10 years?
Chief Meehan: “There should have been a plan already to replace vehicles on a rotating cycle, but it takes the vote of the Selectmen, the budget committee and the citizens to be able to replace vehicles on schedule. It is the plan to look at replacing a vehicle in 5 years because of their age.”
LMTS: Members of the Budget Committee questioned you on your proposed plan to pay for the 2017 fire truck over a period of 10 years at a cost of $54,572.00 per year. Members voiced the opinion that dividing the cost over a 10 year period would cost the town a total of $90,000.00 in interest payments over the term of the lease, about $9,000.00 per year. The Members who seemed interested in the actual budgeting for the fire truck rather than your need for one, questioned whether the payments would be best paid for over a shorter time period. Chief, could you tell the residents and voters if the suggested 10 year time frame was your recommendation, and if not, who chose the 10 year payment timeline, and what payment timeline you would personally recommend to the Town?
Chief Meehan: “I suggested a 7-10-year plan because of the yearly payment being lower, the selectmen agreed and went with the 10-year payment, this was only because of the yearly payment being less than a 5-year payment. But it makes sense to go five years paying a higher lease payment but saving money over all.”
***It is noted that members of the Budget Committee recommended that the Selectmen change the original 10 year planned payment time frame to a 5 year planned payment time frame, the Selectmen agreed, and it will be a 5 year payment plan that will appear on the referendum question regarding the new fire truck***
LMTS: After the Budget Committee Meeting, five members of that Committee continued their discussion of your fire truck request in the Lebanon Town Office parking lot. I was personally in the parking lot obtaining signatures for a petition when I overheard the things being discussed by these five members. Since the five members would constitute a quorum of the Board, who were meeting without notice or invitation of the other members or the public, I feel it is my right to question you on the discussion they were having. When I confronted them as to the conversation I was overhearing, I was told that I was attributing the statements made to the incorrect members, and that may be so as it was dark. The statements I was hearing were so incorrect that it upset me greatly. To that end, the following questions will not mention who was speaking, but will answer questions that may come up in private conversations with Town of Lebanon Budget Committee Members, or at the Lebanon Public Hearing, scheduled for Saturday, April 30, 2016. It is my hope that voters of the Town of Lebanon will print this interview and come to the Public Hearing armed with questions and comments with regards to these statements. Again, I relate to you that these statements were not part of the formal Budget Committee meeting, but were so disturbing to me, that I re-entered the Lebanon Town Office and requested that Budget Committee member Corinna Cole accompany me out into the parking lot to hear the statements being made.
LMTS: Chief, one of the statements made Wednesday evening was that the Lebanon Fire and EMS Department is predominantly made up of EMTs and that you currently have only “a couple” of certified Firefighters on your department. Is this true?
Chief Meehan: “That is not true, we have a good number of certified firefighters. Some of our certified Firefighters are also medical and some medical members are in a Firefighter 1 & 2 class to be certified. Also some of our firefighters are testing out on their EMT, we care cross training. The old ways of fire being on top is in the past, medical is equally important if not more as they handle the bulk of the calls. Last year the Ambulance did about 450 calls and fire did 220 calls. Our dedicated certified members do also hold a full time job, sometimes it depends on when a call comes in that will depend how many will respond.”
LMTS: It was also stated in that parking lot meeting, that Lebanon Fire and EMS only has an average of 2 firefighters responding to active fire scenes within the Town of Lebanon, and that our Fire and EMS Department are relying on outside towns to come and put out Lebanon’s Fires. The two members certifying this to the others stated that they listen to the scanners and only hear two people responding. When I told those two members that only one or two members respond to dispatch via the radio, and the rest respond via the “IamRepsonding” app, it was told to me that these two Budget Committee members have the “IamResponding” app which would show them the firefighters responding to any incident. I have related to you that evening at the Lebanon Town Office, the names of the two Budget Committee members stating that they have “IamResponding” apps. Could you explain “IamResponding” to our residents, and answer to your best knowledge, whether these Budget Committee members have, or have any right to have, “IamResponding” apps related to the Town of Lebanon Fire and EMS?
Chief Meehan: “I am Responding is a phone/computer app that active members have, this app allows our current members the ability to get notified of Lebanon calls, it is like carrying a pager in their phone. The only way a budget committee member could have access to the account is if they, a family member or friend gave them their log in information.”
LMTS: One of our Budget Committee members present at the parking lot meeting is related to a firefighter in a nearby town. If that member had “IamResponding” for that neighboring town, would they have the ability to see which Lebanon responders were responding to an incident within the Town of Lebanon?
Chief Meehan: “NO, but if they had a family member was a member of the Lebanon Department they could if they had their family member’s log in information.”
LMTS: In a second question with regards to the above statement, could you explain to the voters of Lebanon the agreements you have made for Mutual Aid with other area Fire Departments?
Chief Meehan: “With Milton we have an automatic mutual aid simply because they can reach parts of Lebanon before we can, it is about patient care and safety. We have also remade our run cards, these run cards splits the town into 4 quarters and helps dispatch with who we need when we call in how bad the fire is, but these new run cards also call in bordering departments automatically if we go out on some certain calls such as smoke in the building, chimney fires etc. It gets trucks on the road saving much needed time, if we get on scene and we can down grade, we can cancel them. But if we get on scene and it is worse they are already responding and we can call in more if needed.”
LMTS: Mutual Aid, Chief, in my limited understanding, means that the Lebanon Fire Department also responds, upon request, to fires in other area towns. Could you tell the residents and voters of Lebanon, have members of the Lebanon Fire and EMS Department responded to fires outside of the Town of Lebanon, and if so, how many responders are typically sent, and how our own station and town are covered in the event of a fire in Lebanon?
Chief Meehan: “Last year we covered 31 mutual calls, anywhere from 2-5 members have gone mutual aid. With our run cards we have an outside department that will come in to cover the town, if we send two trucks out of town mutual, we will call in a mutual aid station to cover our station incase calls come in.”
LMTS: It was mentioned on Wednesday evening that other local towns do not call Lebanon to participate in Mutual Aid events. Within each area town, there was a certain “order” in which other area departments are called to Mutual Aid from other towns based on their ability to furnish manpower and apparatus, Could you tell us the “order” that Lebanon Fire Department was called for Mutual Aid when you took over as Chief, versus the “order” that Lebanon is now called to furnish Mutual Aid to other area towns?
Chief Meehan: “You cannot blame towns not calling you in if you cannot get them help, over the year I have seen us get called sooner, like I have said we provided 31 mutual aid calls to outer towns. This does not include mutual aid calls the ambulance has done to Sanford and other area towns. Our dedicated certified members do also hold a full time job, sometimes it depends on when a call comes in that will depend how many will respond.”
LMTS: Has the Lebanon Fire and EMS received any mention or award from local area town fire departments for their accomplishments and progress in responding to Mutual Aid incidents?
Chief Meehan: “We always receive many thanks and recently received a certificate of thanks from Alfred for helping fight their structure fire.”
LMTS: During the formal Budget Committee meeting, it was stated that the truck you are hoping to purchase for your department was a medium sized cab, capable of seating four responders. later it was said that there was no need for a four seat piece of equipment. I have also received, via e mail, questions regarding that decision. The question seems to be whether or not the fire truck would sit at the station waiting for four responders to arrive, rather than getting out of the station in a more timely fashion with two responders and having others meet them on scene. What is the reasoning behind obtaining a four seat fire engine vs a two seat fire engine, is there a difference in the cost to the taxpayer, and would you advise your firefighters to wait for a crew of four prior to responding to a fire in the Town of Lebanon?
Chief Meehan: “The engine is not being built for just today but for the future, plus currently if we go mutual aid and more than 2 people show up we have to also send my car or the squad taking up road space when parking.
The truck will not be held up if a fire is in town, but members use "I am responding" to sign on to the station, as members come into the station they can see if anyone is almost at the station and can quickly load the truck if needed. Members are not allowed go mutual aid in their own vehicle.”
LMTS: In the dark of the parking lot, it was stated that the Lebanon Fire and EMS Department had “enough power” with the town’s two tank trucks and single remaining fire engine (Engine 2) to put out any fire in Lebanon, and that an additional engine was an unnecessary expense to the taxpayers. Could you respond to this statement?
Chief Meehan: “In the past the fire chief and members have tried to keep the 4 apparatus they have to serve the town of 55.8 sq. miles and some 7000 citizens. Engine 2 carries under 800 gallons of water and 40 gallons of foam, it really should have at least 1000 gallons being the first apparatus out of the station, this type of Engine is good in areas with hydrants. So the new apparatus will have 1500 gallons being more appropriate and replacing an engine which was 1000 gallons. At least twice the retired Chief and members tried to replace Engine 1, they knew it was old, it cost more to repair and was unsafe because the 4 extra members it could carry was not in an enclosed cab which is now a National requirement.”
***LMTS hopes that this interview with the Chief has been helpful to you in forming questions of your own for the Chief and the Board of Selectmen with regards to the Lebanon Fire and EMS budget and their quest for a new fire truck to replace the now out of service, Engine 1.
We would like to thank Chief Meehan for responding in writing to our questions. By quoting the Chief directly, you should have no question as to whether or not his quote is shortened or misquoted. LMTS retains the original written documentation of this online interview.***
Thank you for reading this interview and we hope to see you at the Lebanon Public Hearing on Saturday April 30, 2016, at the Lebanon Elementary School, beginning at 2 pm.
